empire777 ทดลอง เล่น_แจก เครดิต ฟรี sbobet_โปรแกมบอลวันนี้

27 posts / 0 new
Last post
lagatta4
Actions against the rightwing coup in Venezuela?

Any where you live?

Remember, one need not be uncritical of Maduro to oppose this coup supported by such ghastly folk as Trump and Bolsonaro... Shame on Trudeau. And Singh, stop being a lapdog.

montgomery

lagatta4 wrote:

Any where you live?

Remember, one need not be uncritical of Maduro to oppose this coup supported by such ghastly folk as Trump and Bolsonaro...

Yes, once again imperialist aggression and which could very likely be the US's 41st. war of aggression since WW2!

Quote:
Shame on Trudeau. And Singh, stop being a lapdog.

That comment provides no answers. Maybe an outspoken campaign voiced by either of their parties to educate Canadians on the facts. But it would have to be subtle and very slow persuasion.

Probably no more than 30% of Canadians ar thinking our way right now.

?

iyraste1313

Thank you for this thread...it is important, first, to see who is lining up in support of this coup attempt. A Nation wide organization must be established in support of constitutional legitimacy in Venezuela. (My base is Kelowna and Vancouver). We must have on the grounds presence in Venezuela!!

Who is denying the legitimacy of the previous presidential election, which is at the core of the matter here.

Which international observer teams participated and their response?
Can Canada claim legitimacy in its elections, ruled by money and corporate media prejudice, in violation of our Section 3 democratic rights, not to mention Government violations of its own proposed election program?

Unionist

Oh FFS, lagatta posted this in the Activism forum so that we could announce actions across Canada. Are there not enough other threads to debate the issues?????

I'll start it off:

Unionist

Mobo2000

Thanks for this info!?? I will be heading out to Bloor and Spadine tomorrow.?? Canadian support for this coup is sickening.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Rally against Canadian and U.S. support for a coup against the government of Venezuela.

Where: 201 Portage Avenue, Winnipeg (outside the US Consulate at Notre Dame and Portage Avenue)

Date: Saturday, Jan. 26, 2019

Time: 3 PM

The rally is sponsored by the Venezuela Peace Committee and Peace Alliance Winnipeg.

montgomery

Does anyone know if Russia and China are going to stand up in some way for Venezuela? There's been voices of support at RT.com at least but South America is most likely too distant for Russia to assert some influence in the same way that they saved Syria.

Sadly, the window of opportunity for US aggression was 'almost' slammed shut. Happily, nothing is permanent and the people will rise up again to claim freedom from US tyranny. China and Russia will have too much influence in the near future to brush aside.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

montgomery wrote:

lagatta4 wrote:

Any where you live?

Remember, one need not be uncritical of Maduro to oppose this coup supported by such ghastly folk as Trump and Bolsonaro...

Yes, once again imperialist aggression and which could very likely be the US's 41st. war of aggression since WW2!

Quote:
Shame on Trudeau. And Singh, stop being a lapdog.

That comment provides no answers. Maybe an outspoken campaign voiced by either of their parties to educate Canadians on the facts. But it would have to be subtle and very slow persuasion.

Probably no more than 30% of Canadians ar thinking our way right now.

?

Then again, are YOU "thinking our way now"?? Most of your recent posts here are simply dismissive of what whoever you are exchanging posts with at the moment has to say, and you repeatedly come to the conclusion that any course of action anyone here suggests is utterly futile-following which, you never offer any constructive alternatives to anything anyone else suggests-while, at the same time, insisting that the rest of us defer to you because you are "the new face of the NDP".

montgomery

Ken Burch wrote:

montgomery wrote:

lagatta4 wrote:

Any where you live?

Remember, one need not be uncritical of Maduro to oppose this coup supported by such ghastly folk as Trump and Bolsonaro...

Yes, once again imperialist aggression and which could very likely be the US's 41st. war of aggression since WW2!

Quote:
Shame on Trudeau. And Singh, stop being a lapdog.

That comment provides no answers. Maybe an outspoken campaign voiced by either of their parties to educate Canadians on the facts. But it would have to be subtle and very slow persuasion.

Probably no more than 30% of Canadians ar thinking our way right now.

?

Then again, are YOU "thinking our way now"?? Most of your recent posts here are simply dismissive of what whoever you are exchanging posts with at the moment has to say, and you repeatedly come to the conclusion that any course of action anyone here suggests is utterly futile-following which, you never offer any constructive alternatives to anything anyone else suggests-while, at the same time, insisting that the rest of us defer to you because you are "the new face of the NDP".

I just offered constructive criticism in the form of suggested action for the NDP to take. Didn't you read it? I think you did but maybe your mind isn't open to anything new? So I'm going to start from scratch and explain my thinking to you and others who care to read. I thought it was self-explanatory but maybe I was wrong.

So even though Jagmeet may? or may not be my absolute ideas choice for a leader; that's beside the point. I sit and read here some of the hardliners criticizing our leadership for not takinig a hardline position on issues, and the Venezuela situation can serve for a great example.?

What's the point of the NDP and it's leadership coming out with a hardline position being stated on the issue if it's going to turn 70% or 80% of Canadians against him/them? And so I offered my advice, which you didn't seem to catch. You can go back and find it and read it if you choose to do so and then maybe we can get around to discussing it. I don't see any other alternatives being offered on this board and I really don't think that forcing a national leader to commit Hari-Kari is a smart choice.?

Fwiw, my feelings about what's happening at the hands of the US are as bad and intense as any of the others. Probably much worse compared to some sentiment being voiced on this forum by one or two of the regulars who feel that the US is justified in running roughshod over the rest of the? world.

Quote:
.............., insisting that the rest of us defer to you because you are "the new face of the NDP".

You have nothing to fear from me. Constructive criticism is not somethinig to fear. I'll go out on a limb at this time and say that your biggest fear should be the disintegration of this board because of the acceptance of dogma by some members who coinsider it their way or the highway. I view this board as a potential tool for the strengthening of the party.?

I'm still the last person to try to introduce myself at the top of the board! And without a single public welcome!?

edit: correction, one public welcome from WWWTT.?

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Speaking truth to power is the first step on the journey to convincing a plurality that the NDP or any other party that proposes an alternative to the status quo is worth a vote. If you never engage the issue then no Canadian gets anything except the pro-NATO imperial position.

The NDP needs to not only be as forthright as Svend it also needs to allow its MP's to march in the streets with other like minded people to demand that the coup not be supported by Canada. Maybe when people attend events we can get accounts of which MP's, if any, attended

montgomery

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Speaking truth to power is the first step on the journey to convincing a plurality that the NDP or any other party that proposes an alternative to the status quo is worth a vote. If you never engage the issue then no Canadian gets anything except the pro-NATO imperial position.

Real llife doesn't work that way Kropotkin. I wish it did though. When you were a single man and you met a pretty and very disarable person on the street, you and me didn't just tell her we wanted to find a place to ......... - get it on. We took the time to chat her up and a bit of romance. The Canadian people need some of the romance first before they are ready to jump into bed. Their heads have been filled with some bad stuff too, that makes it twice as hard.

Quote:
The NDP needs to not only be as forthright as Svend it also needs to allow its MP's to march in the streets with other like minded people to demand that the coup not be supported by Canada. Maybe when people attend events we can get accounts of which MP's, if any, attended

If Svend plays it right like the other most successful leaders, he'll do the romancing first and if he doesn't then he'll get shit on by people like you, the same as Jagmeet is getting shit on.??

Unionist

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

montgomery wrote:

If Svend plays it right like the other most successful leaders, he'll do the romancing first and if he doesn't then he'll get shit on by people like you, the same as Jagmeet is getting shit on.??

I worked on Svend's campaigns including as an organizer and executive member of the riding association in 1993, 1997, 2000 and 2004 precisely because he spoke truth to power. He likely will be at the event Unionist posted above.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

iyraste1313

If Svend plays it right like the other most successful leaders, he'll do the romancing first and if he doesn't then he'll get shit on by people like you, the same as Jagmeet is getting shit on.? .......

This is 2019, the year of major ecological and economic and financial collapse...your statement suggests nothing of this....old style politics may work when people are comfortable, treating politics as an amusing hobby...but when people get desperate, it′s a new game...too bad people don′t learn anything from history or the present!
What this case of Venezuela demonstrates is that traditional political strategies do not work! Does anyone think the Deep State through its proxies would ever allow a revolutionary change to the status quo? What with our oil wealth ad nauseum destroying the heart and soul of this country?

A revolutionary anti imperialist movement in this country must be built from the base communities, what with change to our personal lives, community engagement, economic roles, financial strategies, building a movement based in the real world, in preparation, before we could assume a political role, without being crushed as what is now going on in Venezuela.....we must learn something from the history of the Bolivarian Movement...and its failures!

montgomery

iyraste1313 wrote:

If Svend plays it right like the other most successful leaders, he'll do the romancing first and if he doesn't then he'll get shit on by people like you, the same as Jagmeet is getting shit on.? .......

This is 2019, the year of major ecological and economic and financial collapse...your statement suggests nothing of this....old style politics may work when people are comfortable, treating politics as an amusing hobby...but when people get desperate, it′s a new game...too bad people don′t learn anything from history or the present!
What this case of Venezuela demonstrates is that traditional political strategies do not work! Does anyone think the Deep State through its proxies would ever allow a revolutionary change to the status quo? What with our oil wealth ad nauseum destroying the heart and soul of this country?

A revolutionary anti imperialist movement in this country must be built from the base communities, what with change to our personal lives, community engagement, economic roles, financial strategies, building a movement based in the real world, in preparation, before we could assume a political role, without being crushed as what is now going on in Venezuela.....we must learn something from the history of the Bolivarian Movement...and its failures!

That which you quoted me as saying has nothing to do with your comments in that post.?

I have however talked about another attempt at change in the US by some politician with the same aspirations as Bernie. And then, if the American people can break through the establishment status quo, it will carry over to Canada. Sadly, as long as we're so close to the US as allies in their aggression, we're going to be dictated to by them and no real social change will happen.?

Just ask Canadian people how they love the US. And how they have been brainwashed into hating Russia/Putin. You'll probably find some on this very forum!?

lagatta4

I do NOT think most Canadians hate Russians in the least. Being critical of Putin does not mean hating the Russian people or Russian culture (from ballet to hockey). And many loathe Trump.

As for Venezuela, it is not at all necessary to be uncritical of Chavismo, Maduro or the most recent Venezuelan elections to oppose INTERVENTION in the affairs of other countries. The US has a long history of that, following in the footsteps of Britain, France and other powers. The so-called "White Man's Burden".

lagatta4

I do NOT think most Canadians hate Russians in the least. Being critical of Putin does not mean hating the Russian people or Russian culture (from ballet to hockey). And many loathe Trump.

As for Venezuela, it is not at all necessary to be uncritical of Chavismo, Maduro or the most recent Venezuelan elections to oppose INTERVENTION in the affairs of other countries. The US has a long history of that, following in the footsteps of Britain, France and other powers. The so-called "White Man's Burden".

montgomery

lagatta4 wrote:

I do NOT think most Canadians hate Russians in the least. Being critical of Putin does not mean hating the Russian people or Russian culture (from ballet to hockey). And many loathe Trump.

?

I would suggest that to accept the US line of irrational hate for Putin, equates to hate of Russia. You yourself are 'critical' of Putin but you don't explain why. I would really like to hear it because I suspect it's irrational to be critical of Putin. But do remember, when you tell me why you are critical of Putin, you have to separate that from being critical of Russia. Can you do that?

I'm bearing in mind that Putin/Russia is not the topic of the thread. But the connection above is obvious so I would suggest that it's not completely off-topic.

Quote:
As for Venezuela, it is not at all necessary to be uncritical of Chavismo, Maduro or the most recent Venezuelan elections to oppose INTERVENTION in the affairs of other countries. The US has a long history of that, following in the footsteps of Britain, France and other powers. The so-called "White Man's Burden".

I totally disagree with your statement on being critical of Maduro, etc., because in my opinion you have skipped a step in the process. The US has interfered in Venezuela with the intent of destroying Maduro's government and so anyone criticizing Maduro and his government must first understand that. And as I've said repeatedly, to bring the point home to those who still don't understand, Venezuela will quite likely be the US's 41st. war of aggression since WW2. A detailed study of the other 40 will show that it's always been the same reasons. US imperialist aggression!?

edit: I did my best to understand that last statement of yours so if I've got it wrong then that's fine. We're on the same page. Double negatives.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

montgomery wrote:

lagatta4 wrote:

I do NOT think most Canadians hate Russians in the least. Being critical of Putin does not mean hating the Russian people or Russian culture (from ballet to hockey). And many loathe Trump.

?

I would suggest that to accept the US line of irrational hate for Putin, equates to hate of Russia. You yourself are 'critical' of Putin but you don't explain why. I would really like to hear it because I suspect it's irrational to be critical of Putin. But do remember, when you tell me why you are critical of Putin, you have to separate that from being critical of Russia. Can you do that?

I'm bearing in mind that Putin/Russia is not the topic of the thread. But the connection above is obvious so I would suggest that it's not completely off-topic.

Quote:
As for Venezuela, it is not at all necessary to be uncritical of Chavismo, Maduro or the most recent Venezuelan elections to oppose INTERVENTION in the affairs of other countries. The US has a long history of that, following in the footsteps of Britain, France and other powers. The so-called "White Man's Burden".

I totally disagree with your statement on being critical of Maduro, etc., because in my opinion you have skipped a step in the process. The US has interfered in Venezuela with the intent of destroying Maduro's government and so anyone criticizing Maduro and his government must first understand that. And as I've said repeatedly, to bring the point home to those who still don't understand, Venezuela will quite likely be the US's 41st. war of aggression since WW2. A detailed study of the other 40 will show that it's always been the same reasons. US imperialist aggression!?

edit: I did my best to understand that last statement of yours so if I've got it wrong then that's fine. We're on the same page. Double negatives.

I can't speak for lagatta, but I am both anti-Putin and opposed to any US policy of confrontation with Russia.

Vladimir Putin is a reactionary, homophobic, antiMuslim-and also almost certainly antisemitic-Great Russian Nationalist.? Putin took cynical advantage of the justifiable anger ordinary Russians felt about the humiliating and pointlessly vindictive treatment the US inflicted on post-Soviet Russia, ranging from the massive, crippling austerity the US and "The West" imposed on the economy of "democratic" Russia, to the Western insistence on pushing for the size of the Russian Federation to be shrunk as much as possible, to Bill Clinton's repeated, arrogant insistence on referring to the US as "the world's ONLY remaining superpower"-in other words, all the ways "The West" forced post-Soviet Russia to play the role of the vanquished nation when it should have been invited to be an equal partner in the creation of peace and prosperity, and when the people of Russia were utterly blameless for anything done by the regime between 1924 and 1991-to make and win an argument that a peaceful, democratic future was a future of subjugation, poverty, hopelessness and shame.? Putin was able to create a political consensus that democracy should be replaced with a kind of electoral Tsarism-with himself as the next tsar-that Russian society had to be based on an obsession with territorial revanchism as crucial to the re-establishment of national dignity, on an obsession with hypermasculinity, male supremacism, and an utterly irrational paranoia about LGBTQ people-including the restoration of the toxic myth that gays are responsible for most pedophilia.

I agree that the man is no threat to global order, but it is equally clear that he has crushed all positive, progressive, and humane values within Russia, has centered bigotry, cruelty, and paranoia about any form of nonconformity, and has encouraged an essentially fascist consciousness, including the emergence of fascist hate groups, a latter-day Russian version of the freikorps, within Russia.

The guy may have slightly reduced violence in Syria...and if he did I'll give him that...but other than that, why should anyone who claims to be in any part of the left give the man even "critical support"?? There is no possible way that anything Putin is doing can ever help create a peaceful, socialist, or even mildly egalitarian world, and he has clearly shown himself to be utterly devoid of any empathy or humanity.? What's to like?

Unionist

[Message from the thread police:] Any other actions to report around Canada against the war on Venezuela?

lagatta4

I agree with ken on Putin and don't hate Russia in the slightest. also agree with unionist about venezuela solidarity actions. can't write a long post as my keyboard isn't working.

iyraste1313

Venezuela Actions

The Canadian Voice of Women for Peace (VOW) will be delivering a letter and holding a rally outside the office of the Minister of Foreign Affairs Chrystia Freeland in Toronto this Wednesday to object to her/the federal government's stance on and sanctions against Venezuela.

VOW strongly opposes the Government of Canada’s recognition of Juan Guaido, leader of the National Assembly, as the self-declared interim president of Venezuelaa. Canada should not join the Trump and Bolsonaro administrations in calling for “regime-change” or back any foreign interference or military intervention in Venezuela.

Canada must respect the international legal principles of non-interference, sovereignty, and self-determination for this South American country. Canada must also end its illegal sanctions against Venezuela, which are worsening the economic hardship for the Venezuelan people. Canada should join the UN, the Vatican and the Governments of Mexico and Uruguay in calling for a peaceful, diplomatic solution with all parties to end the political crisis and lift the sanctions on Venezuela.?

Click here to view our letter

HANDS OFF VENEZUELA
No interference, No Coup, No Sanctions!
Wednesday, January 30
3 - 4 pm
Outside the office of MP Chrystia Freeland, Minister of Foreign Affairs
344 Bloor Street West Suite 510, Toronto?
Organized by the Canadian Voice of Women for Peace (VOW)
For more information,?click here.

Unionist

Thanks, iyraste1313! Your links didn't work for me, but at least I found this about the Toronto action - it must be ongoing as I'm posting. Haven't found a working link to the VOW letter yet, though.

?

WWWTT

Thanks Unionist and 1313!

iyraste1313

But the Bolivarian movement in Venezuela has millions of supporters. Most are poor people who would lose out under a new rightwing government. While the Venezuelan military may be corrupt and not very willing to fight, many people will surely take up arms to defend the gains they made under Maduro and Chavez.

It might be relatively easy to invade Venezuela and to defeat its regular military. But the following occupation would be a very difficult endeavor. The Pentagon has seen how this worked out in Iraq. It will likely warn against the use of any U.S. troops in Venezuela. Other countries will likewise be careful not to get into such a mess.

The CIA and the coup plotters can hire thousands of throat cutting thugs to do some extreme damage to Venezuela. But they have little chance to win more than a completely destroyed country.

Might that be the real aim? Is the project for the New?Middle East?Latin America one of complete destruction?

moonofalabama.org

The Canadian Government, the complicit political parties and the media must be challenged, legally in Federal Court. An action must be prepared through the UN Human Rights Commission. Canada is clearly in violation of its International Human Rights obligations....

In this legal process, preparations must be made to build an anti imperialist, human rights based, sovereignty based political movement, built on personal and community? transition strategy.....silence is complicity!